One of the things I’ve learned while healing from domestic violence is that codependency is less neediness and not being able to do anything on your own and more shielding everyone from the consequences of their own actions at your own expense all the time.
People like you are why I do what I do. Yes, writing helps me process, but I also write for other survivors. The advocacy work and education are part of the something beautifuls I’m growing out of this trauma. 🩵
I remember sitting at your kitchen table last October when you shared the “I am worthy of living because I’m alive” realization with me. And as someone who’s been in the universal healthcare, universal basic income, and disability advocacy crowd, I was surprised. Of course you are. Then I realized, despite that being damn near my mantra since I became disabled, I was not living it for myself.
Thank you for sharing this with so much honesty. I relate deeply to how easy it is to shrink yourself just to keep the peace and how hard it is to untangle self-worth from being useful to others. That realisation that you have value simply because you exist is so powerful. Reclaiming your needs and boundaries isn’t selfish, it’s essential. Cheering you on as you keep choosing yourself.
Thank you so much, Lisa! That realization was the catalyst for so much healing and growth. I actually wrote an essay called Choose, that touches more on that, and I’m going to be writing a follow up to that piece soon! I appreciate your support and kind words. Truly, my heart. 🥹🩵
I can relate because I’ve known those in positions like you.
I’d like to clarify my reshare. And challenge you with this proposition, since I finished reading after reposting in line.
If you took your situation, and you bought all the alcohol for years. Would you describe him as alcoholic when he leaves you tired of shrinking himself?
If you stage an inability for him to divorce completely, as him losing jobs years later, living in another state. Because you’re calling the police to welfare check him running sprints in the park at noon. Do you call that not paying the bills?
Again, just honest questions as your perspective is independent and one of value, as it’s honest as well. And objective to think of your situation using different variables. Because I’m not your husband.
So the title of co-dependent doesn’t make the symptoms and examples similar, in my opinion.
I’ve known marriages adjacent to ours, that I’ve suggested other wives leave. Because they enable.
It’s like a razor’s edge, when you turn the variables though.
If co-dependency was the diagnosis. Shouldn’t we both be free in separation?
I’m not sure I understand what you mean. He bought his own alcohol, and I tried to limit him to stay within our budget and also for his health. While I had good intentions and part of it was self preservation, trying to limit him was outside my circle of control. The choice to drink was his. He was the one who worked, as I was home with our children, so even if I had been buying the alcohol, the choice to drink to excess was his.
I don’t understand the scenario you’re proposing. My ex husband didn’t shrink himself. He drank because he liked to party and he liked how it made him feel. So he drank and he played call of duty and he expected me to handle all the domestic chores and put out when he wanted it. His behavior was fueled by entitlement.
You could say I enabled him by not leaving sooner and by continuing to clean up his messes, but as a stay at home mom of 2 with no income, I couldn’t exactly just up and go. I was trying to find a way to keep us together for the kids, and you have to factor in custody concerns. He gets unsupervised custody time with them and it terrifies me every time. The system is broken.
My situation is vastly different than anything you are describing. Jumping to causing him to lose a job and calling welfare on him is a wild leap. So again I’m just not really sure what you mean.
As far as codependency being freed by the end of the relationship, not exactly. Unless the codependent does the inner work to heal and address the wounds causing the behavior, the pattern will continue in other relationships, platonic, familial, or romantic.
Thank you immensely. I’m describing not your story. Where your story you’ve just validated, as I didn’t want to assume, your husband bought his own alcohol and decided to drink. Maybe as a co dependent you might not have always spoke up for yourself. You shrank, and after leaving him you then made yourself bigger and spoke in ways you possibly even regret not doing earlier. But your husband honestly chose what he was choosing.
My example asked the question, simply because I’ve seen co-dependents need to be the one in control. They live lives literally enjoying drinking or smoking. Encouraging it, because they realize there is no problem. When they are left, they project the story the way it is lived from your eyes though.
They can’t describe someone without issues as being similar to your marriage because you align as co-dependents. They avoid their accountability, using your story.
It’s basically an inverse story. Where that co-dependent was so reliant on controlling someone not entitled. They looked to chipping pieces of her husband away. Until he just couldn’t love her anymore, it was toxic. She shrank him, by trying to be both lifeguard and drowning victim.
You should take some peace in knowing that, although neither story is fair. You have something to heal and grow from. All the other wife did for years, was try to continue making her ex husband responsible by proving he left incapable of living without her. She’s up and on to the next house after 18 years, in like 7 months. But she’s got decades of unresolved trauma. So she lived a long time, trying to still bury her skeletons, like the ex husband could dig them up.
There’s a Taylor swift song, or two, that talk about this. If you listen between the words and combine the songs. You only need to appreciate when Taylor is divorcing but if she was The Man.
I appreciate your added perspective, and I’m sorry if this conversation has triggered you because my text is difficult to discern who I’m talking about. You share a lot in common with an all too common situation. And I can tell you’ve done a lot post divorce in working on yourself.
If there’s an established relationship based on years of friendship I don’t think it’s necessarily love bombing to commit quickly either. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but the two aren’t necessarily equal.
I think there’s a difference between “hey I met this person and I think you’d get along well,” and overstepping boundaries or getting too involved. But if you don’t even want your family or friends to do the first, that’s your boundary to set!
I’m very sorry for your loss. I can only begin to imagine how painful that must be.
Thanks for clarifying! I think that emotionally immature people who aren’t willing to face accountability will always find a way to reverse victim and offender. I don’t think that all codependents are necessarily emotionally immature or that they avoid accountability. I could see how the combination of copedendency and emotional immaturity could lead to a scenario like you described.
I also think anyone who can totally reverse the victim and offender has to be mentally unwell.
I don’t think anyone can cause someone else to become an alcoholic though, and the type of controlling person you’re describing sounds deeply disturbed.
Several of Taylor’s songs on her Tortured Poets Department album hit close to home for me. I remember listening to one and going “this is love bombing.”
I appreciate you clarifying more of what you meant, and thank you for saying that. I have worked and am working hard to heal from this so it never happens again, and to grow something positive from this trauma. 🩵
Oh yeah. Love bombing is so real. I could get into that venue for hours lol.
What it isn’t though, is being in love and connecting completely away from someone. What it also isn’t is declaring devotion quickly. When you’ve spent years of friends grooming the relationship before you even meet.
I’ve had situations I’ve seen, where a family walks someone through a Love Island experience between two people they are “testing “ as compatible. It’s disgusting really, but I’m also in the market of making sure these toxic dynamics aren’t ever repeated.
I’VE LOST TOO MANY BROTHERS, and vengeance in love is often the worst killer.
Swapping the victim and abused is another.
And one hundred percent the reason why I live alone and am happy only to connect to people securely, or debate these scenarios for the sake of my dead brothers.
You know how I choose to move with it. It’s not so painful for me. Think of the stories themselves. And now all those in those families who lose someone. A husband, a father, a brother, a son.
I’d be selfish really, and unhealed myself to take it personally or not get over the pain.
There are hundreds of children just lost to those floods in Texas. You’ll truly never live if you choose to stay in the cycle downward or across. You need to find appreciation. Forgive but not forget.
Again, I can relate to most of this post - thank you for putting it into words ❤️
People like you are why I do what I do. Yes, writing helps me process, but I also write for other survivors. The advocacy work and education are part of the something beautifuls I’m growing out of this trauma. 🩵
Thank you for defining this. Just wasted two years of my life "protecting" someone from their actions but never considered it co-dependancy.
Ouch. It’s a painful realization. I’m glad I could help clarify or reframe it in a helpful way.
I remember sitting at your kitchen table last October when you shared the “I am worthy of living because I’m alive” realization with me. And as someone who’s been in the universal healthcare, universal basic income, and disability advocacy crowd, I was surprised. Of course you are. Then I realized, despite that being damn near my mantra since I became disabled, I was not living it for myself.
I’m so proud of you. 🩵
Thank you for sharing this with so much honesty. I relate deeply to how easy it is to shrink yourself just to keep the peace and how hard it is to untangle self-worth from being useful to others. That realisation that you have value simply because you exist is so powerful. Reclaiming your needs and boundaries isn’t selfish, it’s essential. Cheering you on as you keep choosing yourself.
Thank you so much, Lisa! That realization was the catalyst for so much healing and growth. I actually wrote an essay called Choose, that touches more on that, and I’m going to be writing a follow up to that piece soon! I appreciate your support and kind words. Truly, my heart. 🥹🩵
I can relate because I’ve known those in positions like you.
I’d like to clarify my reshare. And challenge you with this proposition, since I finished reading after reposting in line.
If you took your situation, and you bought all the alcohol for years. Would you describe him as alcoholic when he leaves you tired of shrinking himself?
If you stage an inability for him to divorce completely, as him losing jobs years later, living in another state. Because you’re calling the police to welfare check him running sprints in the park at noon. Do you call that not paying the bills?
Again, just honest questions as your perspective is independent and one of value, as it’s honest as well. And objective to think of your situation using different variables. Because I’m not your husband.
So the title of co-dependent doesn’t make the symptoms and examples similar, in my opinion.
I’ve known marriages adjacent to ours, that I’ve suggested other wives leave. Because they enable.
It’s like a razor’s edge, when you turn the variables though.
If co-dependency was the diagnosis. Shouldn’t we both be free in separation?
I’m not sure I understand what you mean. He bought his own alcohol, and I tried to limit him to stay within our budget and also for his health. While I had good intentions and part of it was self preservation, trying to limit him was outside my circle of control. The choice to drink was his. He was the one who worked, as I was home with our children, so even if I had been buying the alcohol, the choice to drink to excess was his.
I don’t understand the scenario you’re proposing. My ex husband didn’t shrink himself. He drank because he liked to party and he liked how it made him feel. So he drank and he played call of duty and he expected me to handle all the domestic chores and put out when he wanted it. His behavior was fueled by entitlement.
You could say I enabled him by not leaving sooner and by continuing to clean up his messes, but as a stay at home mom of 2 with no income, I couldn’t exactly just up and go. I was trying to find a way to keep us together for the kids, and you have to factor in custody concerns. He gets unsupervised custody time with them and it terrifies me every time. The system is broken.
My situation is vastly different than anything you are describing. Jumping to causing him to lose a job and calling welfare on him is a wild leap. So again I’m just not really sure what you mean.
As far as codependency being freed by the end of the relationship, not exactly. Unless the codependent does the inner work to heal and address the wounds causing the behavior, the pattern will continue in other relationships, platonic, familial, or romantic.
Thank you immensely. I’m describing not your story. Where your story you’ve just validated, as I didn’t want to assume, your husband bought his own alcohol and decided to drink. Maybe as a co dependent you might not have always spoke up for yourself. You shrank, and after leaving him you then made yourself bigger and spoke in ways you possibly even regret not doing earlier. But your husband honestly chose what he was choosing.
My example asked the question, simply because I’ve seen co-dependents need to be the one in control. They live lives literally enjoying drinking or smoking. Encouraging it, because they realize there is no problem. When they are left, they project the story the way it is lived from your eyes though.
They can’t describe someone without issues as being similar to your marriage because you align as co-dependents. They avoid their accountability, using your story.
It’s basically an inverse story. Where that co-dependent was so reliant on controlling someone not entitled. They looked to chipping pieces of her husband away. Until he just couldn’t love her anymore, it was toxic. She shrank him, by trying to be both lifeguard and drowning victim.
You should take some peace in knowing that, although neither story is fair. You have something to heal and grow from. All the other wife did for years, was try to continue making her ex husband responsible by proving he left incapable of living without her. She’s up and on to the next house after 18 years, in like 7 months. But she’s got decades of unresolved trauma. So she lived a long time, trying to still bury her skeletons, like the ex husband could dig them up.
There’s a Taylor swift song, or two, that talk about this. If you listen between the words and combine the songs. You only need to appreciate when Taylor is divorcing but if she was The Man.
I appreciate your added perspective, and I’m sorry if this conversation has triggered you because my text is difficult to discern who I’m talking about. You share a lot in common with an all too common situation. And I can tell you’ve done a lot post divorce in working on yourself.
I have a lot to say about love bombing as well.
If there’s an established relationship based on years of friendship I don’t think it’s necessarily love bombing to commit quickly either. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but the two aren’t necessarily equal.
I think there’s a difference between “hey I met this person and I think you’d get along well,” and overstepping boundaries or getting too involved. But if you don’t even want your family or friends to do the first, that’s your boundary to set!
I’m very sorry for your loss. I can only begin to imagine how painful that must be.
Thanks for clarifying! I think that emotionally immature people who aren’t willing to face accountability will always find a way to reverse victim and offender. I don’t think that all codependents are necessarily emotionally immature or that they avoid accountability. I could see how the combination of copedendency and emotional immaturity could lead to a scenario like you described.
I also think anyone who can totally reverse the victim and offender has to be mentally unwell.
I don’t think anyone can cause someone else to become an alcoholic though, and the type of controlling person you’re describing sounds deeply disturbed.
Several of Taylor’s songs on her Tortured Poets Department album hit close to home for me. I remember listening to one and going “this is love bombing.”
I appreciate you clarifying more of what you meant, and thank you for saying that. I have worked and am working hard to heal from this so it never happens again, and to grow something positive from this trauma. 🩵
Oh yeah. Love bombing is so real. I could get into that venue for hours lol.
What it isn’t though, is being in love and connecting completely away from someone. What it also isn’t is declaring devotion quickly. When you’ve spent years of friends grooming the relationship before you even meet.
I’ve had situations I’ve seen, where a family walks someone through a Love Island experience between two people they are “testing “ as compatible. It’s disgusting really, but I’m also in the market of making sure these toxic dynamics aren’t ever repeated.
I’VE LOST TOO MANY BROTHERS, and vengeance in love is often the worst killer.
Swapping the victim and abused is another.
And one hundred percent the reason why I live alone and am happy only to connect to people securely, or debate these scenarios for the sake of my dead brothers.
You’re a real one. Never change.
Honest take.
You know how I choose to move with it. It’s not so painful for me. Think of the stories themselves. And now all those in those families who lose someone. A husband, a father, a brother, a son.
I’d be selfish really, and unhealed myself to take it personally or not get over the pain.
There are hundreds of children just lost to those floods in Texas. You’ll truly never live if you choose to stay in the cycle downward or across. You need to find appreciation. Forgive but not forget.